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            "type": 19,
            "content": "<@839279408057024512> should be able to help you out here... he uses v60s a lot",
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            "type": 0,
            "content": "yeah for sure. out of 1-5 of fermentation in the cup.. I'd be at like 3 for Edid's coffee. but, there is also quite a bit of cup variance as well.",
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            "content": "hah nice!",
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            "content": "nitrogen flushed naturals in kenya.. ha I don't think i have!",
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            "content": "yeah, exactly. unless its something like the expiriments with ALO or something where we have to purchase the coffee up front to try and learn something... and sometimes in those cases the experiment went so badly that we can't release the coffee haha",
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            "content": "Also, for example, Tim Hill and I both have very different levels of acceptable fermentation. But, i know exactly how he defines his and he knows exactly how i define mine. His preferences are just different from mine. Neither are arbitrary or right or wrong.",
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            "content": "oh no, i think there is still a ton of things we need to learn about varieties. also crosses are happening all the time. Also grafting is starting to happen.. for example we'll be tasting gesha grafted onto SL root stock on Kamavindi in the next year or two... just so many things that still can be explored in coffee",
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            "type": 19,
            "content": "for sure, i'm using fermentation to actually mean fermentation not 'processing' I define these things quite differently",
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            "type": 0,
            "content": "yeah its a nice cafe for sure",
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            "type": 0,
            "content": "haha oh that makes sense",
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            "type": 0,
            "content": "You're at prufrock??",
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            "type": 19,
            "content": "hah this I would 1000% take issue with this and would happily triangulate levels of fermentation in cups for this producer. Its one of the easiest things to taste in coffee IMO",
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            "content": "yeah this i totally agree with... what keeps it from being arbitrary is that every buyer should be good enough at tasting coffee / knowing what they themselves are looking for to define it quite specifically. It could and probably will be a different definition than mine, but it should be well defined... and not arbitrary. Without that level of specificity, I wouldn't really call that person a professional. If that makes sense.",
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            "content": "Lost origin is certainly going to fall into the 'processed' side of that line IMO, but that is also more than just using yeast inoculations. The reason we work with Franz at lost origin is because he has a really impressive lab and also he is very interested in working with us on specific things to see what we can learn to then potentially take out into 'real world' situations. They are also very cool coffees, and I think the level of intensity of flavor and what we learn by making them and tasting them is really very good! He does produce alot of coffees that go so far over that line that i don't believe we're learning anything and they are just interesting ' what can we do with coffee' profiles, this are significantly less interesting and I'd probably never release them. \n\nThe natural process experiments we did with Tamiru last year are also very good examples of this.  -So what keeps this again from being arbitrary for me is that when/if we release something like a coffee from Lost Origin it is because of a very intentional/ non arbitrary reason / expiriment hoping to continue learning something very specific",
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            "type": 0,
            "content": "Ha yes, we definitely messed this one up! It's been fixed on the website. Unfortunately, the cards have all been printed. I'm so sorry we missed this one!",
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            "content": "Oh i think there is always more to unlock in coffee... haha I fully believe that each year we taste coffee that has never before been tasted. Coffee and our understanding of it continues to chnage so rapidly its crazy.",
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            "content": "uhmmmmm let me look into this 😂",
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            "content": "ha for sure",
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            "type": 0,
            "content": "it could be a difference in the definition of arbitrary... not I'm not quite sure",
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            "type": 0,
            "content": "oh its very very very much a niche.. ha just not an arbitrary one",
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            "type": 0,
            "content": "we're really very specific around how we define 'fermentation/processing' in the cup.. that is actually very easy to carlibrate around with producers/ suppliers around the globe !",
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            "type": 0,
            "content": "haha wouldn't say this is arbitrary 😂 ...but yeah this is totally true",
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            "content": "for sure, also, I / sey am very, very specific within the world of coffee. There are a ton of processing / expiriments happening in coffee that I'm just never going to be interested in hah... luckily there are a lot of amazing roasters out there that are bringing them to market",
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            "content": "Hey yeah, haha looks like most people kind of answered this for me. But, I'm personally looking to explore and kind of map coffee for profiles of place and variety. When it comes to fermentation and/or naturals... I usually draw the line when I feel the cup profile is more dominated by fermentation than place/variety. This 100% not saying that naturals are bad. But, it is extremely, extremely challenging / maybe kind of impossible to produce a natural where the cup profile isn't dominated by process/fermentation. We do do a lot of experiments trying to figure out how to produce natural processed coffees that I would define as 'clean' or tasting mostly of place/variety, but thus far, we've been mostly unsuccessful. It is remarkably hard. I will keep trying though!\n\nBut this is a very personal stance on the subject. I'm sure there are other people here who would disagree!",
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              "type": 0,
              "content": "yeah for sure. out of 1-5 of fermentation in the cup.. I'd be at like 3 for Edid's coffee. but, there is also quite a bit of cup variance as well.",
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              "content": "hah nice!",
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              "content": "nitrogen flushed naturals in kenya.. ha I don't think i have!",
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              "content": "Also, for example, Tim Hill and I both have very different levels of acceptable fermentation. But, i know exactly how he defines his and he knows exactly how i define mine. His preferences are just different from mine. Neither are arbitrary or right or wrong.",
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              "content": "oh no, i think there is still a ton of things we need to learn about varieties. also crosses are happening all the time. Also grafting is starting to happen.. for example we'll be tasting gesha grafted onto SL root stock on Kamavindi in the next year or two... just so many things that still can be explored in coffee",
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              "type": 19,
              "content": "for sure, i'm using fermentation to actually mean fermentation not 'processing' I define these things quite differently",
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              "type": 0,
              "content": "yeah its a nice cafe for sure",
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              "type": 0,
              "content": "haha oh that makes sense",
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              "type": 0,
              "content": "You're at prufrock??",
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              "type": 19,
              "content": "hah this I would 1000% take issue with this and would happily triangulate levels of fermentation in cups for this producer. Its one of the easiest things to taste in coffee IMO",
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              "content": "yeah this i totally agree with... what keeps it from being arbitrary is that every buyer should be good enough at tasting coffee / knowing what they themselves are looking for to define it quite specifically. It could and probably will be a different definition than mine, but it should be well defined... and not arbitrary. Without that level of specificity, I wouldn't really call that person a professional. If that makes sense.",
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              "content": "Lost origin is certainly going to fall into the 'processed' side of that line IMO, but that is also more than just using yeast inoculations. The reason we work with Franz at lost origin is because he has a really impressive lab and also he is very interested in working with us on specific things to see what we can learn to then potentially take out into 'real world' situations. They are also very cool coffees, and I think the level of intensity of flavor and what we learn by making them and tasting them is really very good! He does produce alot of coffees that go so far over that line that i don't believe we're learning anything and they are just interesting ' what can we do with coffee' profiles, this are significantly less interesting and I'd probably never release them. \n\nThe natural process experiments we did with Tamiru last year are also very good examples of this.  -So what keeps this again from being arbitrary for me is that when/if we release something like a coffee from Lost Origin it is because of a very intentional/ non arbitrary reason / expiriment hoping to continue learning something very specific",
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          [
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              "type": 0,
              "content": "Ha yes, we definitely messed this one up! It's been fixed on the website. Unfortunately, the cards have all been printed. I'm so sorry we missed this one!",
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              "type": 0,
              "content": "Oh i think there is always more to unlock in coffee... haha I fully believe that each year we taste coffee that has never before been tasted. Coffee and our understanding of it continues to chnage so rapidly its crazy.",
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              "type": 19,
              "content": "uhmmmmm let me look into this 😂",
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              "type": 0,
              "content": "ha for sure",
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              "type": 0,
              "content": "it could be a difference in the definition of arbitrary... not I'm not quite sure",
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              "type": 0,
              "content": "oh its very very very much a niche.. ha just not an arbitrary one",
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              "type": 0,
              "content": "we're really very specific around how we define 'fermentation/processing' in the cup.. that is actually very easy to carlibrate around with producers/ suppliers around the globe !",
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              "content": "haha wouldn't say this is arbitrary 😂 ...but yeah this is totally true",
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              "content": "for sure, also, I / sey am very, very specific within the world of coffee. There are a ton of processing / expiriments happening in coffee that I'm just never going to be interested in hah... luckily there are a lot of amazing roasters out there that are bringing them to market",
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              "content": "Hey yeah, haha looks like most people kind of answered this for me. But, I'm personally looking to explore and kind of map coffee for profiles of place and variety. When it comes to fermentation and/or naturals... I usually draw the line when I feel the cup profile is more dominated by fermentation than place/variety. This 100% not saying that naturals are bad. But, it is extremely, extremely challenging / maybe kind of impossible to produce a natural where the cup profile isn't dominated by process/fermentation. We do do a lot of experiments trying to figure out how to produce natural processed coffees that I would define as 'clean' or tasting mostly of place/variety, but thus far, we've been mostly unsuccessful. It is remarkably hard. I will keep trying though!\n\nBut this is a very personal stance on the subject. I'm sure there are other people here who would disagree!",
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